Is Healthcare a Universal Right?

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Permalink Reply by Bill Bean on April 14, 2009 at 4:19pm

Like so many issues, important or otherwise, the devil is in the details. What is meant or implied by healthcare?

I don't believe in universal healthcare. I do believe we have a fundamental obligation to treat one another humanly. As a Christian I am guided by the stories like that of the Good Samaritan and the idea of the Golden Rule. I do have a responsibility to do what is right.

Again, I base these on my faith. Not everyone will share these principles.

As a taxpayer...I don't owe it to my neighbor to fund the government caring for him/her at the end of life because of poor choices they made throughout their life. Granted, that's an easy one. At the risk of sounding inhuman, I also don't think someone stricken with a horrible, terminal disease, at no fault of their own, should be kept alive by the government.

Most Americans believe that they are owed a life of comfort and little pain. I still come in to conflict with that programming in my own system. The world owes me neither of those things.

The government is not independently wealthy. It is funded by us, a limited us. The government is us. Local, community organizations should help neighbors take care of one another based on what the community wants to do. But, as some will argue, there isn't money at the local level to do that. No kidding! The government is taking it all to pay for the stuff we either told them we wanted or they think we want.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin M. Hill on April 14, 2009 at 9:13pm

I don't think that healthcare is a right, but I believe most people in this country do believe that. We have advanced our technology so well that we have incredible ability to extend and save lives. However, most people ASSUME that should be taken care of regardless of cost.

It does become an ethical and moral dilemma in that if we have the ability to save life, it sure seems like we should. Yet each and every dollar spent to develop the technology needs to come from somewhere. How do we pay for these advances if we are going to give them away to people who can't or won't pay for them.

In the end it remains a very tough question. I come down on the side of it not being a right. Take care of yourself, pay for insurance from an early age, and hope for the best.

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Permalink Reply by Cynthia Wise on April 14, 2009 at 10:23pm

I agree with the posts that comment that it isn't our duty to take care of those who don't take care of themselves. But, can you honestly say a single mother who gets injured in a car accident who cannot afford coverage shouldn't get help?And a child born to a family with a life threatening condition that requires surgery should be denied the right to live? The problem lies within the corporate greed. The health care industry is overcharging. No doctor is given the incentive to keep us healthy. It's been said many can get kick backs from the drug companies and insurance when we are sick. Studies have shown countries with universal systems have healthier people. I am not sure the government is the answer, but individuals, families and small companies cannot afford nearly $1,000 per month per family for health care. We need a better system.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin M. Hill on April 15, 2009 at 6:27am

Cynthia, I agree that $1,000 a month is a lot of money for health insurance. The problem is we have too many people not participating, and that drives the cost issue. The more people that participated, the lower the cost would be. Insurance of all kinds is based on everyone participating with a little loss (premium) to cover a few people's big loss. With health insurance we have too many healthy people not participating, driving up the cost for those who need the coverage. Since the ones who need it use it, the cost continues to climb. For sure we have a broken system.

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Permalink Reply by Michael R. on April 15, 2009 at 12:34am

No, it is not.

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Permalink Reply by Linda J Ranger on April 15, 2009 at 8:52am

I agree with Kevin. We don't like paying for car insurance but it is expected that we pay to at least cover liability in order to drive a vehicle. We are required to show proof of insurance if we are pulled over by the police. We need health insurance to be required and more affordable by requiring everyone to pay into it to keep the rates reasonable.

Why not allow our citizens the option to join the federal government worker's plan at the same cost as the employees since the federal government is our country's largest employer thus their insurance rates are the lowest. They too require participation through monthly contributions by the employee. What I like about their plan is that you can continue it into retirement with just paying the same amount per month as when you were employed since they allow you to be part of the group plan as long as you continue paying into it. More contributers more money for healthcare use by the plan members. Many large businesses that are going bankrupt under the weight of paying for healthcare at no cost to the retiree has to stop. Even the federal government knew this couldn't be sustained by the contributions of the present group of employees.

The emergency room care for those that are poor or without insurance is always available as it is today. We as tax payers who contribute to a healthcare plan cannot afford to pay for more and more people that refuse to pay for any coverage even though they are employed and feel they cannot pay for insurance. Small businesses and self employed individuals should be able and required to join an affordable plan or be covered by their spouse's plan in order to bring down costs to all. We should require catastrophic insurance from all of our citizens as a minimum coverage.

As a self employed individual I do not understand why there is not a large group plan available to small businesses and their employees at a low rate since the pool of contributors could be quite high.

I enjoy choosing my own doctors and care and would prefer not being part of a clinic setup thus my husband's plan allows us to pay extra for that option and I feel it is important to allow each person to decide on their level of choice and costs just like any other insurance.

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Permalink Reply by Michael R. on April 16, 2009 at 6:05am

Well said, Linda.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin M. Hill on April 16, 2009 at 7:20am

Linda, very well said. I thought of the link to the financial responsibility laws on auto insurance. Thanks for bringing that up.

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Permalink Reply by Arik Flanders on April 16, 2009 at 7:25am

Nope, not a right.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher M Smith on August 10, 2009 at 1:01am

So the richest country in the world cannot provide even the most basic coverage for their people but, other countries can? Are you one of the Kool-Aide drinking Birthers so frequently messaging on "inside Indiana"

I think everyone should pay into a system of available minimal insurance with catastrophic coverage so people don't lose everything if they are genetically unfortunate enough to get sick and need help.

Ya know, (lifted from another post I had on SI)
In the idealized Libertarian view, the Government has no real role in the free market and if only we had unfettered Laissez-faire markets all would be right with the world and the strong companies will survive. And in doing so, they will always do what's best for the consumer? Is that "Right?.
I currently have the right to spend weeks and weeks and weeks shopping for a new healthcare policy in the "Free Healthcare Marketplace" where profits determine who gets healthcare and decisions are made not by doctors or Bureaucrats, but by paper pushers who's priorities are 1st and foremost Profits? Do I have this right?

The system some seem to support and this Country now has, is forcing me to find coverage for my son "Sean" because my healthcare company (Assurant Health) just decided they will no longer cover "Mental and Behavioral Health" related issues (Sean has Autism). FYI, he's been insured since before he was born. He has now been labeled a Pre-exising condition. I've paid my bills on time with Assurant. Faithfully doing what I must to protect my family. I played by the rules and they (the healthcare industry) can arbitrarily kick all families like mine to the curb. FYI - They're doing it right now to hundreds of thousands. At least I can lobby my government and kick out those SOB's when they screw up. If i try to do this with Assurant health or Bill McGuire, I can be arrested.

Is this your idea of "Compassionate Conservativism" My government is currently fighting to provide coverage where the current "Free Market" has failed me. Pre-existing conditions and the BS the Healthcare Companies hide behind in denying coverage has been around for a long time. Bush, the Re-Pubs & anyone who supports true Laissez-faire markets don't give two shits about my family or anyone like me. It's been said on this message board, "He who controls the money calls the shots".... right now, it's the Private Healthcare companies and I think they're for shit.

I'm not a big fan of the Government running anything outside of the "Commons"

But you know, we can't have Liberty & Happiness if we cannot have the "LIFE" assured in "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Said in another thread: I can't think of a government run social program that works well in budget...can an honest thinker come up with some yet one?

All these programs benefit the society quite well:
1) Gov. run fire departments work well (Social benefit)
2) Gov. Police departments run well (Social benefit)
3) Gov. water companies work well (Social benefit)
4) Gov. power companies work well (Social benefit)
5) Gov. Military runs well (Social benefit)
(Blackwater is BS, oh that's right they had to change the name to ?, because of corruption)
6) Public Schools run well (Social benefit) (Gotta give me this one too...Private hurting for $ too)
7) FAA (Social benefit)
9) VA (Social benefit)
10) Medicare (Social benefit)
8) CDC (Social benefit)
9) EPA (Social benefit)
10) Judicial System (Social benefit)
etc...

Ya know, a game played without rules isn't much of a game. Our Government has and should play a significant role in setting the rules for Healthcare. Otherwise, the only winner will be the Company who cheats the most.

I honestly think Republicans spend a great deal of their time cutting government programs until they are broke and then look back at the fires they've created and say, "See, Government programs don't work"

We may never agree about this and I honestly respect everyone's opinons but I'm living a nightmare relative healthcare right now and the private insurance companies are doing me no favors. They won't give a damn until made to do so. There is a place for Government and I think Healthcare should be either socialized (just like our police, fire departments, military,etc...) &/or heavily, heavily regulated to protect the people who make up and benefit from the Commons.

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Permalink Reply by Arik Flanders on August 10, 2009 at 7:41am

Where will the money come from? If you take more money out of the markets and create higher taxes for the wealthy in order to pay for healthcare, you immediately slow free enterprise. The wealthy are who create and invest in the vast majority of jobs in this country, if you continue take more money out their hands, what do you think will happen? Less jobs, and less money circulating in the economy. Thus, making things worse for all of us.

I sympathize for you and your son, but do you honestly think that your neighbors should be required to pay for your unfortunate situation?

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Permalink Reply by Tom Marsh on August 10, 2009 at 9:54am

do you honestly think that your neighbors should be required to pay for your unfortunate situation?

What I think you might fail to realize is that if you use the health-care system in this country you're already paying for somebody else's misfortune, regardless of how you interact with the health-care system. To me, the question is how do we who are paying premiums every month to protect ourselves and be responsible get a better deal to cover everybody else?

If:

- you're paying cash to them you're getting hit: The hospital raises prices on everybody when an uninsured person can't pay their bill and the collection agents are unsuccessful. Net result: You pay more to cover people who can't or won't pay.
- you have insurance, but the hospital raised-prices when somebody who didn't couldn't pay, so your co-pay goes a shorter distance for your services, requiring more "out of pocket" by you. Although many plans have a reasonable "deductible," if too many plan-members hit that ceiling in a year, the plan will surely raise rates later, hitting you with higher monthly fees to cover the outlays--a nice double-whammy.

And you pay in every possible scenario I've thought of to date... Except for not buying any insurance and making sure you never get sick, ever as long as you live (nor anybody in your family that you're financially responsible for.)

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